AI in healthcare is starting to deliver on its promise, from Epic's ambient documentation tools to a new AI model pulling fresh insights out of routine sleep studies. Megan Antonelli and Janae Sharp break down the good news in healthcare technology this August, plus a few reality checks along the way.
Janae Sharp, Founder, The Sharp Index
Megan Antonelli, CEO, HealthIMPACT Live
00:00:00 Intro: Welcome to Digital Health talks. Each week we meet with healthcare leaders making an immeasurable difference in equity, access and quality. Hear about what tech is worth investing in and what isn't as we focus on the innovations that deliver. Join Megan Antonelli, Jenny Sharpe and Shahid Shah for a weekly no BS deep dive on what's really making an impact in healthcare.
00:00:30 Megan Antonelli: I went looking for AI failures this summer. I spoke to a lot of healthcare systems and asked what they're working on, what's working, what's not, and what they're scaling. Mostly I heard the technology is working, but getting humans workflows, governance, and budgets to work is still the hard part.
00:00:47 Janae Sharp: I think that's such a good point. Like we have technology. What's not working? Oops.
00:00:54 Megan Antonelli: Everything is harder than it seems. I am Megan Antonelli, CEO of Health Impact Live here with Jenny Sharp, founder of the Sharp Index. Hi, Jenny. How are you?
00:01:04 Janae Sharp: I'm doing great. I'm happy to talk about good things.
00:01:07 Megan Antonelli: It's good to see you.
00:01:09 Janae Sharp: Yes. I haven't seen you in forever. I feel like, okay, it's maybe been a month. Maybe, but it's the August month when we definitely.
00:01:17 Megan Antonelli: Definitely not more than that. And it is mid-August. Uh, Hershey is joining us.
00:01:25 Janae Sharp: Good thing is the pets. We want to see everybody's pets.
00:01:28 Megan Antonelli: Yes, Hershey and Bear have been good this summer, as have, uh, in generally the Antonelli family, but it is the first day of school here in Hermosa Beach.
00:01:38 Janae Sharp: That's always a good thing.
00:01:40 Megan Antonelli: Yeah. And it's, uh, it's a little weird because it still feels like we are just beginning the summer and it's I can see on my Amazon Alexa, it is eighty degrees outside, but the kids are at school. So here we are. Um, and in general, it was a good summer. We didn't do too much, but I feel like it was, you know, we did a lot of work. As I said, I was talking to a lot of health systems, doing a lot of podcast interviews and going to conferences. Somewhere in between there, I made it to Cape Cod for a family reunion, and I went back to Vassar for my college reunion. Um, but in general, uh, we had lots of, lots of events. We were down in San Diego for h p n West, which was a great meeting. They do, uh, the hosted buyer model there. Uh, it was moderated and led by Terry Coates and me and Mike mosquito on the stage. It was great. Lots of friends down there. And then of course, we worked with Sam King again this summer on the Women's Disruptive Leadership Summit back in, in, uh, Long Beach Yacht Club. So that was super fun. How about you? What were you doing?
00:02:46 Janae Sharp: We did a lot of fun things, actually. One thing I wanted to share that I thought was sort of fun. Not only did Pizza Hut bring back their reading challenge, But I was able to do some fun reading things with my kids. We got the Libby app, we met with our library and we joined on Story Graph the world's. What is it the hardest reading challenge you'll ever do? So I've been listening to and reading books with my kids that they pick that kind of like fit this, this guideline. It gives you like directions on types of books. And I know that's not like your traditional vacation story, which, you know, those are also fun, but it was really fun to learn more about the things that they cared about, and also to just read things that I wouldn't normally be be reading. You know, I read a lot of fourteen year old boy novels that my kids love. So I thought that was nice to just be building something together with them because they were so excited.
00:03:47 Megan Antonelli: Well, that's so good. And it's such a human thing to do and, and such a nice thing. I mean, especially with the kids. I wish I could get my kids to read. Uh, you know, they do. They do a lot more on their devices than they do with books. But certainly it is a summer reading, at least. When I was a kid, we always did summer reading. Right now it's.
00:04:06 Janae Sharp: Right.
00:04:07 Megan Antonelli: Who doesn't want a requirement anymore? Which is kind of ridiculous, but it should be.
00:04:12 Janae Sharp: We all want bookmarks and free pizza, so shout out to Pizza Hut for bringing that back one hundred percent.
00:04:20 Megan Antonelli: Totally. Uh, at the so when we were at, um, the Long Beach event, there was a quote from the stage. It was Michelle Linares and she said, uh, learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. And she was quoting Picasso on that, but I feel like it spoke to the room both because the room was very much about women's leadership and in healthcare and what that means. But obviously there was the undercurrent of AI and human in the loop. And I think those two sides of it of, you know, where are we keeping our humanity as we continue to add all of this technology? I feel like that was kind of the theme of my summer. So there you go with reading with your kids. There's nothing more human than that.
00:05:08 Janae Sharp: Yeah. Now we have lots of favorite books now.
00:05:11 Megan Antonelli: Good.
00:05:12 Janae Sharp: So if anybody out there wants to join us, let me know. We'll send you a link. We'll get you involved in the, you know, parenting with technology program where you aggressive year old.
00:05:24 Megan Antonelli: The fourteen year old boy book club, in addition to the sharp index book club is that do we have a new product launch?
00:05:32 Janae Sharp: For all the for all the parents who don't feel like they're doing enough.
00:05:36 Megan Antonelli: Speaking of a new product launch, uh, epic. Um, is this week.
00:05:43 Janae Sharp: We love epic GM. I've loved seeing the posts about it.
00:05:48 Megan Antonelli: You know, I know well they do. They do such a good job. You know, kind of melding the experience with it. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, it's a bunch of technical healthcare technology geeks going to Wisconsin and somehow they make it magical. You know, and very exciting. And there's, there's, uh, I think I read that Judy was on stage with a small, uh, a miniature, uh, Shetland pony, uh, and, uh, making a.
00:06:17 Janae Sharp: Probably hers.
00:06:18 Megan Antonelli: Making announcements about, I think it was named Scotty. So maybe I, you know, I.
00:06:23 Janae Sharp: Bring your pet to work day.
00:06:25 Megan Antonelli: I see a Star Trek reference in there. Um, but the, the, uh, announcements that she had to share about kind of where epic is headed, what they've accomplished, what so many of the health systems have accomplished over the years since the last one was pretty impressive. It seems like there's certainly a direction for them to be looking at offering more, Offer more products and even pricing for smaller hospitals and rural hospitals. And then, you know, really kind of building that architecture around the EHR, which is a lot of the area where our, you know, the, the vendor community kind of lives. So they're, they're certainly not taking a step back from competing with those that are that are out there. They are full steam ahead. But why? You know, and I think it's a good thing because I think competition is good and it drives, you know, it drives more innovation. And it, it means, you know, everybody's going to do more to keep up the flip side, there's the monopoly piece of it. That's the bigger.
00:07:30 Janae Sharp: Yeah, I don't know that epic is always an example of inviting outside innovators, but I do think they do a lot of things really well. And I liked that they focused on creating a better experience. I love the post from Jackie Gearhart, talking about how, you know, we have all these tools to automate things, to reduce your workflow, to make things easier, but it's not enough. Like we need to have something that AI should feel magical. It should feel like something that's actually adding to your life. You know, before your visit, during your visit, after your visit, and surprising and delighting people. Honestly, I think it wouldn't be that hard, but it's also something we need more of. And I love that. I love that people are focused on that and working on that.
00:08:21 Megan Antonelli: Mhm. Yeah. Well, and a lot of it comes down to them and the work that they're doing to free up clinicians to not have, you know, so much work around prior authorization, so much work with documentation to let the technology handle the things that they, you know, don't want to do, you know, and that they're more free to do. Uh, you know, with the patient and, and, you know, but with that emphasis of keeping the human in the loop, which we hear, you know, over and over again and how important that is. So.
00:08:49 Janae Sharp: Yeah.
00:08:50 Megan Antonelli: You know.
00:08:50 Janae Sharp: I really think they're listening to people, you know. Years ago, I talked to a CIO who just said, you know, you pay millions of dollars or billion, you know, never before have you paid so much for someone who hates you so much. And I think, you know, despite all the non-disclosures like that got around, you know, and people are demanding more like if it's this isn't going to be sunk cost, we're not going to just have an EHR because we spent so much money on it. We're going to get to where we need to go with technology.
00:09:22 Megan Antonelli: Right.
00:09:23 Janae Sharp: And that's a modern view. And it's also something I'm thrilled about because people want excellence and people, clinicians, healthcare systems want to deliver great care. So seeing technology, um, kind of finding that balance between the battle for market share and the battle for Excellence and beauty is great to see.
00:09:49 Megan Antonelli: Mhm. Yeah. And I have to say, as I've talked to the CIOs and, you know, the NEOs, you know, we talked to, uh, Jerry Hansen about the adoption of nursing, uh, ambient listening for nursing and what that's done to practice and where they've seen the results. You know, they're seeing it in, in the reduction in documentation and the reduction of that, but they're also seeing improvements to patient care. I think the other thing, the other story we saw this this month was coming out of Mayo and Parkview and Riverside, where they're using the epic AI generated summaries to surface, you know, important information before and during care. You know, I mean, and that's, that's how we're using it. That's how we use it. You know, I use it before, before phone calls to, to, to get a better sense of what somebody has talked about, what their organizations are working on. And it's just, it's a shortcut. Uh, As a sidebar, I think we talked a little bit about LinkedIn's new feature, where they can.
00:10:50 Janae Sharp: Speaking of shortcuts, right?
00:10:52 Megan Antonelli: Speaking of shortcuts and speaking of how you use them, the the AI slop button on LinkedIn. Yes, admitted. Jenny, have you used it?
00:11:02 Janae Sharp: Absolutely. I would also like to personally thank LinkedIn for creating that button, and it has made my feed more tolerable because I was considering just the the personal damages that my eyes have experienced. As someone who has ever seen any art in my life. Um, it was getting to be a lot to see flyer after flyer with no negative space, weird people's faces that don't quite match what people actually look like. And literally the strangest story I've ever heard. You know, it was like a parody of people making fun of people posting on LinkedIn, you know, my dog died. And that's what I learned about B2B sales AI edition. So yeah, they have this button where you can just report it like, so next time you see eight hundred, you know, suggested things to follow and it's just some weird AI flyer that really, really is confusing and is clearly not made from a real person or is just like a bot.
00:12:08 Megan Antonelli: I have to say, I, so what I used it for last week was my nephew's birthday. He just turned three and I was with him when we went to Cape Cod and we went to the beach and I made a puzzle for his birthday. And I created in a Richard Scarry style image where there was no negative space. But it was intentional because it was a puzzle, but it was perfect for that. And then I had someone on Etsy make it out of wood so it has value. And there are there are applications, but it is it goes back to that quote, right. It goes back to you have to be such an expert in what you are doing that you can then tell the tool, right, how to do it right and well, and make sure that you're not just putting AI slob out there, you know, and I, and, and, and in the event that you might need some AI slop, then that's, that's good too. Sometimes, sometimes you do, but I, it's interesting, I think as, as a marketer, as a, as a content creator, and then as someone who observes and, and commentates on, on the healthcare side of it, which is such a much more intense and complex application of these tools. But the parallels are the same, you know, and it's very similar to the overuse and the dumbing down and, and just making sure that we control that. But then sometimes it creates more work than it did in the beginning, right?
00:13:42 Janae Sharp: When I talked to a few people who like, like, here's my good news for founders, you don't have to do everything that chat or whatever AI tool says you should do. Like it might be slightly wrong. Something to think about like, and, and that has created a lot more work for people. Just you get this idea that you've, you know, either ChatGPT or you've seen it online. Like you might think this is the only way to go. And I just hope people realize that there are lots of other ways to go.
00:14:14 Megan Antonelli: And I think that's, that's really good advice. And I was just talking to a friend about that, which is Chat Claude, whichever one you use. They think everything. It's a, they think everything is a good idea. They will take you down that rabbit hole and the ability to just stop. And so you feel like you keep having, you know, there's great ideas and there's so much to do, but it doesn't actually do it for you. I mean, at the end of the day, you're still the one who has to do it. And it's not always right. And I, you know, and we've said it a million times and everybody says it, it's not always right, but it is speaking to you in a way that that makes you believe. So you follow that. And I, you know, I think with yeah, I mean, whether it's becoming a LinkedIn personality, launching a new product, all of those things you have to, you know, be that expert to know what to edit because it is not a good editor. You know, the world still needs editors. And, um, it is not, it is not good at that.
00:15:13 Janae Sharp: Yeah.
00:15:15 Break: You're listening to digital health talks. When we return, we'll continue our discussion on how technology is revolutionizing healthcare delivery. Stay with us to hear more insights on creating sustainable, patient centered digital health solutions.
00:15:33 Janae Sharp: The world still needs people who can tell you that. You know, sometimes ChatGPT is your fourteen year old child pitching you on the best idea they've ever had with the right words and the most examples you've ever heard. But in the end, it is literally the worst idea, right?
00:15:48 Megan Antonelli: You don't.
00:15:49 Janae Sharp: Need.
00:15:49 Megan Antonelli: You don't need a second puppy. You don't need a second puppy or a puppy.
00:15:54 Janae Sharp: Unless.
00:15:54 Megan Antonelli: You do.
00:15:55 Janae Sharp: A little pony named Scotty Epic. Um. Let's talk. I wanted to talk a little bit more about some of the things you said that happened at, um, with Parkview Health. Riverside health, was it Parkview Health, Riverside Health and Mayo Clinic using some of those AI generated summaries to get information and talking about, you know, what, what that actually means, because I know a lot of the leaders to post about, um, you know, creating better experiences for patient visits.
00:16:29 Megan Antonelli: Mhm. Yeah. I think it's, you know, one we're hearing, okay, now people, we're hearing about people using the epic ambient tools and what that you know, how that's going. So I think that the story was around that, um, and really getting into it, helping the clinicians evaluate, you know, what, what's happening and that the clinician is still evaluating that the patient and making the decision and, and that there while reducing the cognitive burden, it's still and ideally and hopefully meaningful, you know, sort of the, the burnout side of it because of documentation. On the other hand, you know, there was a study on the flip side, I can't just I just can't stay on the good things. Uh, that said that the, the burnout reduction and the documentation reduction was not as high as expected. Now, this was not this study. I think it was one in, in.
00:17:22 Janae Sharp: It's almost as if burnout isn't just about documentation.
00:17:25 Megan Antonelli: Interestingly. Yeah. Right. You know that there is more to it. Uh, as we've, as we've talked about many times than just the documentation, and that reducing the documentation burden is an important piece of freeing up their time. Um, I just listened to Andy Austin's podcast. I think it was an old one, but he was talking to, uh, Ed Marx and you know him as a physician that, you know, the goal is to have a keyboardless healthcare experience, you know, both for the provider and the patient. And I think that's a beautiful one. But that doesn't mean burnout goes away, just like sickness doesn't go away. You know, you can't you know, there are things that are part of healthcare that that are tough, you know, and, and that that's going to lead to, to things.
00:18:08 Janae Sharp: So I do think some of that's like the expectation we had is that it's like a home visit in some kind of fantasy universe, but like, this isn't dad. Like you didn't create like the awesome thing where everything's just spying on you and the system tells you if you're right or wrong and then does the billing for you, like, let's meet somewhere in the middle between, you know, the fantasy that health care was an idyllic meeting of the minds only for rich people and make it more about, you know, improvement. So I think some of these tools, even though you might think, you know, that's not necessarily good news, I think it is good news for people to be like, okay, this problem is solved. Now let's get to the heart of what's left over. Now let's get to the small, the harder things and the meat of things that cannot be simply solved by reducing documentation. We have other things that we're going to be able to work on. And I'm thrilled that that time is freed up and the innovation energy is freed up. So people can be looking at what's next in our improvement. How do we get closer to the Star Trek fantasy world of a holographic doctor with a fantastic accent?
00:19:23 Megan Antonelli: Well, not to, you know, not. Um, Andy also talked about what I thought. One thing that I. And you'll like this because I know you've worked a lot with physicians and residency programs and, and sort of the the challenges around that. He ended up in a residency program where he had twenty hours of free time a week. And that's where Out of Sight was born. And I thought that was really interesting because we make so much of a physician's time is work and a nurse's time work. There is no time for that innovation piece of it. So the interesting sidebar there. But the other thing I wanted to talk about, because there's been a lot of news this week and in this month around CMS and, uh, remote patient monitoring, some of it not not going in the direction we want it to in terms of reimbursements and things like that. Um, but we did hear about in UC Davis, they've got a new tele nephrology program, uh, giving patients at Adventist in Ukiah Valley, you know, way out there, uh, outside of Sacramento, you know, access to their nephrologists through the tele telehealth program. And I think, you know, that has always been a really tough, um, you know, kidney treatment is a daily dialysis treatment. And to be able to support that when you've got these specialists, um, you know, a specialist shortage in the rural areas is, is an exciting development and we're seeing more of that. At the same time that we're seeing reimbursements get cut and possibly not renewed and things like that. So, you know, I just wanted to kind of surface that these programs work and they're available and they're, you know, doing, doing the job that we want them to. Uh, we just want to make sure that the, you know, CMS and those organizations that decide whether they are going to be paid for, get paid for because I also read about programs, you know, getting rid of their tele ICUs because, you know, they're just, they cost too much. So that, that, right, that balance is, is, is a tough one to strike.
00:21:27 Janae Sharp: It's difficult, especially with um, conditions that require so much care and costs so much. And it's clear that they've seen value. They're being able to give better care to people in rural areas where your life expectancy is literally just less for lack of access is whether it be for time, ability to travel, no specialists, which we know we do face face shortages in a lot of different areas. But I'm thrilled that there are programs that are still working. You know, being able to see a kidney specialist without leaving your community or even in some people's cases, without leaving your home would be life changing in terms of quality of life and ability to care and treat for, for really complex issues. So that's great news.
00:22:20 Megan Antonelli: It's huge. And along those lines, same lines. Uh, same organization. UC Davis also launched a pilot with Teal Health and Teal Health. We just spoke to Cara Egan. She's the co-founder, you know, and what they do is, is an HPV sample at home. You mail it back. So to avoid having to go in to the to the ob gyn, which we all know is a, you know, takes a it's a tough, tough appointment to get. And God forbid you miss it because somebody's sick, because it's going to be, you know, another three months before you get back there. And that's when you live in major metros like LA, New York and Boston, let alone if you're in Ukiah Valley outside of Sacramento. So exciting that they're going ahead and doing that pilot. Congratulations to Cara and the team on that. Um.
00:23:07 Janae Sharp: Yeah, so that's, that's a home testing pilot. Is that correct?
00:23:10 Megan Antonelli: Exactly. So home testing diagnostic. Yeah.
00:23:13 Janae Sharp: So people are able to get an HPV sample and send it back. I also love it too because you don't want to go to the doctor if you don't have to. And I feel like some of these testing options could be so simple if you could just do them at home. Like, look, you don't always need to get a full workup if you just can do it very simply with, with a blood test or with sending a sample back. And I'm thrilled that they're going that direction. As someone who doesn't love to go in for tests just to be told, I'm fine.
00:23:45 Megan Antonelli: Right.
00:23:46 Janae Sharp: And let me just do it at home, not waste my time.
00:23:49 Megan Antonelli: And actually a tough test. I know a lot of people have done this, you know, as as we enter into our fifties and, and certainly have our parents with sleep apnea. So going to the, the sleep studies, you know, it sounds like it's fun. I mean, you get to sleep.
00:24:03 Janae Sharp: No, oddly, you don't sleep as well in a random building that you don't do it as well as you did at home.
00:24:12 Megan Antonelli: No. And what so the, the other, uh, fifth thing for our good things list is Cleveland Clinic researchers built an AI model that's actually pulling more research out of the routine sleep study data. And so they're getting information about cardiovascular disease, cognitive decline and mortality. So, you know, I, and I always think because I, of course, sleep monitor my sleep with my aura ring. The more we know about sleep and, and the levers that good sleep can, can bring us the, the more we prioritize our sleep, which I've never been good at. I'm a, I'm a big I'm a seal on the on that. How much do you sleep? Uh, scale that. Wait, what does seal that? I only need like a little bit of sleep and I'm still happy, but. Oh, happy is a relative. Yeah.
00:25:02 Janae Sharp: You're still happy, quote unquote. I think that's great too, for people who are going through mental health treatment or for getting treatment for other things, like a lot of the times they have you make sleep goals, but it's really hard to know if you're meeting those goals.
00:25:17 Megan Antonelli: Mhm. So yeah.
00:25:19 Janae Sharp: Getting more information and more value out of fewer tests is I'm on board.
00:25:26 Megan Antonelli: Kudos. Yeah. Kudos to to Cleveland Clinic. Was it Cleveland Clinic?
00:25:31 Janae Sharp: Yeah. Nice work. Cleveland Clinic. We love you guys.
00:25:35 Megan Antonelli: Um, and on that, I mean, because as I said, it's sort of that sleep apnea sleep studies happen. It's a, it tends to be it's very well covered by Medicare. Uh, some, uh, congratulations goes to our friends over at scan for their program with Costco.
00:25:51 Janae Sharp: Obsessed with Costco, obsessed with you guys. Corinne, you also have great social media posts. Thank you. Even though I think sometimes you use images for AI, you're doing it the right way. I don't know if we have to cut that, but like she's fantastic. I love Costco. Every time I'm like, you know what would be cool if brands we actually liked were working with health insurance providers who people usually like less. And here they are doing it.
00:26:17 Megan Antonelli: Yes. And I think that it really I mean, it's it's basically Costco selling a a Medicare plan right through Medicare Advantage. I think it's in two states now. Um, and the Medicare supplement is in the third, I assume California is one of them because that's.
00:26:34 Janae Sharp: Where it was just on the news in California. So, um, you'll be able to find it. And when they come to North Carolina and do things not for Medicare patients. And just for me personally, I'll be able to get my Costco membership through my insurance. And I love.
00:26:46 Megan Antonelli: That. And I do you know, Costco has always been great with their employees and, and they recognize the value and the importance of health care and health insurance and, and where it all fits together. It'll be interesting to see as they're sort of, in some ways entering the business, what that does to what they offer in service. Right? Will it be over the counter hearing products and vision and pharmacy and, and that integration? And then, I mean, I'd love to see if anybody's listening that integration with food as medicine. So the health care, the food gets healthier and better. And that is something that people can track, you know, going back to and I know I talk about it a lot, but when I was at that Chargers practice facility at the bolt and hearing that they as soon as they order their food, it goes to their app, you know, those types of things where Costco could say, okay, here's the food you buy. Now here it is in your food app. You know, that would be so cool.
00:27:41 Janae Sharp: Let's reward you and let you know what things you're lacking. So that's just fantastic.
00:27:48 Megan Antonelli: It is. Well, you know, I think that was quite a bit. Did we have any other good things that happened this this month?
00:27:56 Janae Sharp: I feel like there are tons of good things, but as soon as you get on camera, you just freeze up. I like the LinkedIn slop button being a good thing.
00:28:06 Megan Antonelli: Yeah, well, it is a good thing. It gives us it gives us a little bit more control, but it's also just like a friendly reminder, right? You're, you don't want to get dinged. So maybe it raises the raises the quality of the posts. I'm not sure I've seen that. But, you know.
00:28:21 Janae Sharp: I just think there's a lot of opportunity right now and we're having a lot of difficult conversations around ethics, around, you know, quality and around authenticity that are important. And as we move forward, it's going to be great. You know, the vision will be there. We'll be able to get the care we need where we need it. And that's the dream.
00:28:46 Megan Antonelli: Yeah. Well, summer might be ending, but things are getting better. And it is. It's exciting to see. I think the good news is that we're seeing consistently as technology is not replacing people, right? We're seeing the technology remove the work that people should not have been doing in the first place. So that's, that's where we're headed to my thesis for the month. The technology is doing more, but the humans are still doing the heavy lifting and we're just giving them better things to lift. So that's the goal and it's always a pleasure. Jenny, thanks so much for for joining me on this. And I can't wait till next month. And, uh, thank you to our audience. I hope you have all registered for Health Impact Forum October sixth and seventh. Uh, they're in New York with Microsoft. And if this conversation got you thinking, that is the whole point, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Subscribe to Digital Health Talks. Follow us on YouTube at Health Impact Live and visit Health Impact live dot com. I'm Megan Antonelli, CEO of Health Impact Live, and this is digital health Talks. Let's keep fixing health care one conversation at a time.
00:29:57 Janae Sharp: Like subscribe. Share with all your friends. Tell us your good news.
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