Ambient AI earned its early reputation in the exam room, easing physician documentation. The bigger opportunity, and the harder build, is nursing. Geri Hansen, Vice President of IS Applications at Baptist Health and an informatics nurse by training, joins Megan Antonelli to talk about what it really takes to move ambient AI for nurses from early-adopter experiment to standard practice. They get into where it delivers value today, where it still falls short, how to prove ROI inside structured nursing workflows, and what separates a pilot that scales from one that stalls. A candid, operator-level conversation for the CIO, CMIO, and CNIO planning their next move.
Geri Hansen, MSN, RN, NI-BC, Vice President, IS Applications, Baptist Health
Megan Antonelli, Chief Executive Officer, HealthIMPACT Live
00:00:00 Intro: Welcome to Digital Health talks. Each week we meet with healthcare leaders making an immeasurable difference in equity, access and quality. Hear about what tech is worth investing in and what isn't as we focus on the innovations that deliver. Join Megan Antonelli, Janet Sharpe and Shahid Shah for a weekly no BS deep dive on what's really making an impact in healthcare.
00:00:29 Megan Antonelli: Hi everybody. Welcome to Health Impacts Digital Health Talks. This is Megan Antonelli and my guest today has spent her career standing between the clinical floor and the IT stack, translating what nurses actually need into systems that hold up under real conditions. Jerry Hansen is vice president of IaaS applications at Baptist Health, an informatics nurse by training, and she was just named on to Becker's twenty twenty six list of Women in Healthcare to know. Jerry, congratulations and welcome to the show.
00:01:01 Geri Hansen: Thank you so much for that. That was definitely an unexpected but appreciated introduction. Yes.
00:01:08 Megan Antonelli: Yes. Well, it's so nice to meet you. You know, we've had Aaron on the show and certainly at Health Impact before. And we've heard so much about the work that you guys are doing there in Baptist. Tell us a little bit about your background. I know you've been there about a year and a bit now. Tell us, you know, how you got there and how you got to kind of your role in clinical and informatics.
00:01:32 Geri Hansen: Yeah. So, um, great question. I am a registered nurse by background. I have two and a half decades of experience in healthcare and it, um, am board certified in nursing informatics and it is definitely a passion of mine to bridge the clinical care aspects of things with informatics and truly applications. It, um, my position as it stands today is in the application or the IT side of the house. And so I really enjoy being that forward facing, uh, translator between all the different areas of the health system and being able to translate their problems into impactful value products.
00:02:24 Megan Antonelli: That's amazing. I mean, it's such an important role now. And I think that we're seeing so much of the nursing leadership, uh, you know, particularly take the lead when it comes to AI adoption and applications. Uh, and I know you've had, um, you know, so the experience with implementing and adopting ambient across both the organizations you're with. Tell us a little bit about, you know, the difference of, you know, with, with physicians and nursing and what that looks like because I think, you know, we hear we've certainly heard a lot about physician documentation and, and how it impacts. I'd love to hear your perspective on the nursing side.
00:03:04 Geri Hansen: Yeah. I think one of the key differences between physician documentation and nursing documentation is physicians really have that narrative. They are coming from a place of a a structured note where they are used to talking out loud, um, what their, their plan is, their assessment. They have had a history of um, having scribes doing, speaking that assessment and having the formal dictation, if you will. So even if they're not practicing in the room, usually there's that after they leave the room, they're sitting down at a computer and they're speaking into a device. What they want translated. Nurses haven't had that benefit. Their documentation has been really structured, um, through flow sheets. It's a narrower. So it's a little bit different flavor of charting, if you will. Our our nursing documentation is structured. So that way people can track the trend, not the next step. Um and that leads to a change in, in how things need to be captured and practiced. I would say for nurses, when I first started nursing about two and a half decades ago, um, speaking your assessment out loud was something that they taught in nursing school. And it's something that I saw actively in practice. But I would say about ten years ago, I saw a shift in that where we were silently taking in doing our assessment and then going and documenting that into to the, the EMR. And so I saw the out loud aspects reduce. Um, and so I think another differentiator is physicians are used to practicing out loud Nurses? Not so much. It might be a practice change for some.
00:05:02 Megan Antonelli: Wow. That I hadn't really thought about that. Particularly the part you know. I mean, obviously doctors have had, you know, have had some sort of scribes, not all, but some. Um, but then even just in terms of that nature of practice, right, where, where you're kind of sharing it out loud and communicating. Um, and the kind of that difference. I mean, and also, I mean, just even thinking about the kind of potential of the fact that we are now capturing those engagements and those interactions in addition to others, um, you know, must have a huge impact on the organization and even how you look at kind of workflows moving forward. Have you seen that kind of changes?
00:05:41 Geri Hansen: Absolutely. And you know, I'm seeing that, um, really come through through real time documentation for, for staff. Um, I'm seeing that promise be realized of change in practice and being able to, capture those insights very quickly from our nursing staff. You know, with real time documentation, it's so fascinating because when we take that assessment and we get it into the EMR very quickly, we're then able to leverage the benefits of an EMR. And that is the clinical decision making, that understanding where things deviate so we can intervene more quickly. So being able to chart the majority of the assessment. Real time I think is going to be a huge win here for for nurses. And I'm really looking forward to watching the practice evolve from taking flow sheet documentation and the power of the voice and taking it to the next level. Um, for nurses capturing patient education, uh, when it's being delivered, completing tasks without having to go in and resolve them and really kind of transforming the the administrative burden that many nurses get put upon them. It's like, we need to do this. We need somebody to document it. Going to the nurse. Um, how powerful would it be to take that burden off of them and transition it where it's being captured? Uh, just by nature of interaction with the patient. I think that's going to be a huge win for the practice here.
00:07:25 Megan Antonelli: Yeah. I mean, have you seen any kind of unexpected real, just like wins that you can think of in terms of using the ambient ambient tools and the documentation.
00:07:38 Geri Hansen: You know? Uh, yeah. So at, at Baptist Health, we really focus in on numbers, data and impact. Um, and we have seen a fifty two percent decrease in documentation latency. That means others can see the, the, the valuable information we're capturing and act upon it. That means that we can use other AI or clinical decision support rules to help guide the next step in the care. We've saved over seventy zero zero zero clicks for nurses and a very, very short period of time. Average is about two hours of shift time documentation per nurse, which is phenomenal. But what I wasn't expecting, which was the question you asked, we had an eight percent increase in our patient satisfaction for nursing communications. So I'm sure every institution does a level of benchmarking with their patients and their engagement. I was expecting patients to like it. I wasn't expecting an eight percent jump on their results scores. Um, and we have had one hundred percent of our eligible patients opt in to letting us use this as technology. And so that means our community, our patients, our comfortable with us talking out loud, some of it being captured during the period of time. Um, they're not scared of it. And those were both surprising, um, metrics for me.
00:09:15 Megan Antonelli: That is surprising. Do you have an understanding of the why the satisfaction is higher?
00:09:22 Geri Hansen: I think it's the not having to question and to hearing what's going on real time. Patients are then able to ask, what does that mean? How does this involve me? And so when they're hearing, hey, your heart rate's regular, you know, um, your, your pupils are reactive that I'm testing your brain and the reaction and, and everything's looking good. That alleviates quite a bit of the anxiety. Same thing as any deviations. We can talk about it real time and what that impact means. And so it's really including them and their care and bringing them in as part of the care team.
00:10:05 Megan Antonelli: Got it. And, and so is that because the nurses are actually verbalizing what they're doing more. And therefore.
00:10:15 Geri Hansen: Yeah, the as they are using the technology to capture what's going on with their assessment, the patients are able to hear it real time and have that real time conversation, which is really kind of cool at the end of the day.
00:10:30 Megan Antonelli: Yeah. No, absolutely. Um, you know, I had another, another thing I hadn't really thought about, but of course, with them, with the nurses verbalizing more, the patients are getting that, that engagement more. Um, you know, we, we hear a lot about the example of the physician is no longer or even the nurse is no longer at the computer, but it's also about the fact that they now are, are making sure that they're documenting it. Um, and then in terms of, you mentioned the metrics and sort of those metrics of success. And, you know, we're hearing a lot about it now. I mean, the pilots have started, you know, three a few years ago now. And people are looking at, you know, where are these? Where are these tools really providing value and ROI? And we, we have heard about the hours, you know, the hours saved and the time saved where the, you know, as, as these mature are you. You know, what are some of the other metrics that you guys, you know, are seeing and are planning to measure?
00:11:26 Geri Hansen: I'm really looking forward to the education components to be, to be transparent. I, I think that, um, there are things that we do, tasks that we do at nurse as nurses that are just part of our natural practice. But going back in and having to click the buttons is so frustrating. And I think every nurse does a phenomenal job interacting at the bedside. It would be nice for that to be captured automagically so that they can take credit for the amazing work that they're doing. I really am looking forward, um, to when we are able to elevate from those administrative type tasks, we can shift as a practice to, um, the things that really fill our buckets. And it's, it's the professional practice of nursing where we're doing that critical thinking and solving problems and the practicing as nurses that I really want, um, the ability for us to focus on, and I think ambient documentation gets us a nice chunk of that way forward where we're not doing the administrative tasks and really focusing on the practice of nursing.
00:12:50 Megan Antonelli: Right? Yeah. I mean, to go back a little bit to the documentation piece, right where you know that that's been you know, it's seen as a burden, right? It's a burden, some piece of it as, as opposed to, as you said, sort of that professional practice of nursing and where you're actually problem problem solving. And I guess, you know, where the promise of this all lies is in, you know, where the documentation becomes the background and but then there's more collected and more information. Are you seeing how ambient is able to do that without also, you know, kind of introducing new risk?
00:13:28 Geri Hansen: You know, I, yes, and I think inherently there, there is a level of, of risk today. And if while nursing flow sheets and documentation has been an area that's regulated, I can guarantee if you go to two different health systems and you look at their flow sheet documentation, there's they're going to be different. There is a natural, uh, level of variation of acceptable variation between health systems on on what is documented and what is captured. So I, I do think, especially when it comes to ambient, where you're not going out and searching the ethers for, for what happened, you're capturing what happened real time. So that risk of hallucinations or, or variation naturally is reduced, if that makes sense. And so this feels like a. In the grand scheme of things, relatively safe way of capturing what is going on. And then from that, because there is that real time documentation, it enables additional decision support that maybe does look at what other similar patients, what their journey looks like, how how what you can anticipate on the next step, and kind of that, uh, care, natural care pathway that then lets us know when a patient is deviating from that natural care pathway. Um, and so it's to me, yes. Is there, there's risks with every technology, there's also risk with humans. Um, and I don't see this being a much larger one than somebody, um, manually doing intervention.
00:15:24 Megan Antonelli: Right, right, right. Got it. Absolutely.
00:15:28 Break: You're listening to digital health talks. When we return, we'll continue our discussion on how technology is revolutionizing healthcare delivery. Stay with us to hear more insights on creating sustainable, patient centered digital health solutions.
00:15:46 Megan Antonelli: In terms of and then you mentioned sort of the the acceptance of the patients, right? So not only are you seeing improvements in, you know, a reduction in hours, improvement in patient satisfaction. But there's not that sort of expected fear that perhaps, you know, we've kind of said, well, people aren't going to want this. They're going to say no. Tell us a little bit about sort of the surprises there in your community. I mean, how have that the adoption has been, as you know, open and willing?
00:16:19 Geri Hansen: Yeah. So as I said, there are patients are very open to it. We have not had a single patient say they don't want to, uh, interact with this technology. Uh, there's not that big brother type of mentality that we were worried about as we started implementation. Our patients almost expect it and it would be seen as a negative if we weren't offering this type of technology.
00:16:53 Megan Antonelli: Right. And, and then to sort of on the expectation of that. Now clinicians are expecting it. Right. And as you you know, maybe with nurses, it's coming a little bit later, but that expectation is there. How has the train are you finding that your nurses are coming in fully trained, fully comfortable? How is that working?
00:17:14 Geri Hansen: No, and I'm so glad you brought it up because this is a practice change, right? This isn't something that nurses have done intuitively for years and years and years. The market has shift. So our she's moved. Um, and that means that we have to try something a little bit, uh, new and a little bit uncomfortable. And so the big key that we found, um, is actually enabling a test environment because nobody wants to try something new with an audience, especially one that's counting on you to be professional and competent and know what's going on. There's that level of professional expectation. And so there's a nervousness and a hesitancy of me walking into the room and trying a technology I've never tried for the first time, in front of a person who's counting on me to save their life and not make any errors. So we have a test environment. We enable it for staff, for new staff. It's now part of our onboarding curriculum, but we can go in with test patients. You can interact with the technology. You can click the buttons, make sure that it's recording. You can adjust things ahead of time before you ever step foot in a patient room. And that is a massive game changer for our staff.
00:18:41 Megan Antonelli: That's huge. Yeah. No, absolutely. And you know, in terms of just having that, um, and what's been, what are some of the learnings of that of the training and kind of even in sort of your demographic of more experienced nurses to, um, you know, more inexperienced nurses. What's the, um, what has the response been?
00:19:02 Geri Hansen: It's been amazing. It's been amazingly positive. It's kind of funny when you introduce them to the first time hearing the, the first prompts that they use, because it's not necessarily the intuitive, um, head to toe assessment. It might be bring up whatever labs this patient had. And so users are nurses are testing the boundaries of what the technology can do. And the really exciting thing is the technology is evolving. So even if it's purpose built for documentation today, I can guarantee you and for months they'll be able to interact with the chart and say, hey, what is that labs and have it come up. That's how fast it's evolving. So it's been fun. It's been interesting to hear their prompts, and we're definitely taking note of what they're saying because if the technology isn't doing it today, that's our, our, our nudge of saying, hey, let's, let's see if we can enable this and work with EMR vendors and the ambient vendors to make this the future.
00:20:18 Megan Antonelli: Right? Absolutely. Well that's awesome. I mean, we talk a lot about, you know, these technologies and, and what's amazing, I think about ambient across physicians and nurses is the, you know, sort of adoption and, you know, the fact that they like it in general, just, they like it. You know, there's no, there hasn't been all of that, a lot of hesitancy to it. Um, and it does make me think because we also talk a lot about, you know, pilots and sort of pilot Titus and failed pilots and, and the difference between kind of what, what makes a pilot stick, what makes something, you know, what makes a technology sticky and what makes it scale and and or makes it stall, you know, have you in going through this experience, and I'm sure a number of other implementations, adoptions and pilots throughout your career, you know, are there things that you can say that are different about this?
00:21:13 Geri Hansen: I would say, you know, I, I will not, I cannot stress it enough. Definitely get that and test environment so that they can interact with it. Uh, it will stall if people are intimidated and they have to have that front experience as their first experience. Um, I would also say, and I don't know if we have any vendors who listen to this, but the agreement you signed that can restrict what you're going to be able to scale. And so, um, I know many vendors have, uh, different pricing for physicians versus nurses y, Why? Um, getting to an enterprise license that's, uh, fiscally, fiscally palatable for the organization that allows the scalability of it. Um, I'd say there's also, uh, leverage FOMO. Once one person uses it and they're having a great experience, have them become your champion and roll it out to the next group. Um, data, data, data. Being able to measure the impact of what you're doing. You know, we talk about the, what's in it for me? Well, if you can't tell that story, it's not going to go to the next unit. So, um, I think having a combination of, uh, agreements that enable you to scale an environment where people can be free and interact with technology and a risk free way and then taking your super user. Your great, flexible, innovative team who's willing to do it, um, capturing that data and then leveraging them as super users for the next group, um, to translate. Then it's not an IT initiative, it becomes that clinical initiative.
00:23:08 Megan Antonelli: Right, right. I mean, I think when I have these conversations so much about kind of the lessons learned from EMR adoption and how, how it was rolled out and the hiccups and trials and tribulations of that. And how I do think many have, you know, maybe not avoided all, but avoided many of the missteps, uh, you know, from that, from that experience, um, in terms of, and maybe the training piece is the answer to this, but maybe there's another one in terms of like what you would say to a C I o or a CIO planning their first nursing ambient deployment. What's the one thing you wish you had kind of known earlier?
00:23:58 Geri Hansen: So we've clicked on it with the, um, the education hotbed, that training environment. Um, that, that was definitely an eye opener for us. Um, I, I wish I would have known the patient response earlier because we waited and we were trying to message and, you know, there's that analysis paralysis that occurs before you do something and before you're the first to do something. And we were one of the first up on, on this technology. And so you want to make sure you're doing it right. I wish we wouldn't have waited. I wish we would have stepped in, um, and expanded faster. Um, I think we, we did pause a little bit. Um, we, we hadn't had great utilization of our corporate devices prior to this. And so that was also something that we had to go back and do a refresher for all staff before we rolled out the technology, um, making sure that they have the device in their hand and able to use the device in their hand. Um, and so we had to do some pre-work on, um, what, what the, the value was of having a corporate device with them. So that way this was just, uh, icing if you will.
00:25:36 Megan Antonelli: Yeah, yeah. And that's really interesting. I mean, you know, and, and that's the, you know, kind of the minutia and the details of it. But as you know, and maybe a little bit of because you took the time that was, that was one of those things that you caught. But at the same time, um, that, you know, the hesitancy that we all have within healthcare to kind of move forward and move forward first is always is always scary. Um, but, you know, to know, and I think that, you know, for our audience to know that the patients have been so welcoming and appreciative of, of the tech is, is a really encouraging thing for those who haven't taken the step.
00:26:15 Geri Hansen: And I would say it's, it's not new anymore. It's proven. And so as a practice of nursing, we always look for the the evidence based structure. There's evidence out there now, and it's been repeated at multiple institutions, Baptist health being one. But we're not the only ones. And so I think with that, you can take a little bit of solace and some confidence that this this, there's substance to this. Mhm.
00:26:48 Megan Antonelli: And to that, I mean, as it moves from sort of early adoption to standard practice. What is like the most exciting thing you think it's going to bring about in terms of what it will free nurses to do or, or even, you know, sort of change the professional practice of nursing.
00:27:08 Geri Hansen: I think it's that evolution from, um, enabling nurses to practice at the top of their license. And I know that sounds so, so, so cliche because we hear it in so many environments, but when you're not checking boxes or going in and making clicks and you're focusing on interacting with the patient in a meaningful way, understanding who they are, and not just delivering medications, but delivering holistic patient care. You start to understand their nuances. You Understand the the patient as a person, you're able to see when they're just not acting like themselves. And to be able to critically think at a much different level. Um, I think anytime we can remove some of the administrative burden or the cognitive burden, so people can really elevate. Um, I think that's a beautiful thing. And I, I see this technology as being one of the first steps of many that will help our practice, um, elevate.
00:28:32 Megan Antonelli: Yeah. No, it is, it's really interesting. I mean, when I think about, because we, on the other hand, we have Mohan Nair speak at our event in February and he's written a book around, you know, the dangers of AI making us less, you know, intelligent because we kind of rely on it too much. You know, we can say, oh, I need, I need my Google brain. I need my AI brain to answer this. But in an environment where the the burden is so high, the cognitive burden is so high. And, and the administrative burden is also incredibly high to, to think about what we are freeing up this population, you know, this these professional leaders to do once you take away the administrative burden is really exciting. You know.
00:29:20 Geri Hansen: It for sure is nurses aren't sitting around being lazy playing cards in the break room. I've never seen a group that is so busy, so caring, so, uh, engaged in care. And so it's not a situation where they're working at ratios where they're sitting and twiddling their thumbs. Um, we really need to, uh, recognize the professional practice as it is. And I don't see nurses ever, uh, over utilizing, um, technology and underutilizing their brains. They are amazing.
00:30:05 Megan Antonelli: Right? Yes. Love it, love it, love it. Well, so before we go, we're kind of running out of time before we go, tell us how people can kind of follow you, connect with you. Are you involved with professional organizations going to conferences, um, LinkedIn, whatever is the best way to reach out?
00:30:23 Geri Hansen: All of them. Um, yes. Uh, professional conferences, uh, actively engaged in, in multiple, I'll be at GM every year t h a chime hymns, uh, class. We, we, we love to connect on any, any way, shape or form. Uh, definitely LinkedIn or you can message me at At bmc dot com.
00:30:53 Megan Antonelli: Awesome. Well, Jerry, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you and meet you. And I hope you'll join us at Health Impact and, and, you know, sometime soon and certainly see you at Hims and chime coming up. And, uh, you know, thanks again and I appreciate the work that you do. It's exciting to see, you know, how this technology has really gone from, you know, a pilot to, to practice and how it will change the practice for the better.
00:31:17 Geri Hansen: I so appreciate this opportunity to share. Thanks, Megan.
00:31:21 Megan Antonelli: Awesome. Thank you. And thank you, listeners, if this conversation got you thinking, that is the whole point, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Subscribe to Digital Health Talks, follow us on YouTube and Health Impact Live. And this is Megan Antonelli, CEO of Health Impact. And this is digital Health Talks. Let's keep fixing health care one conversation at a time.
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